Michael Ernest (a.k.a. Heru) wrote on 05-May-1999
     I received your email address from Mr. Shenouda Mamdouh, and he stated that you had information the Ancient Egyptian Music and its relationship on Middle Eastern Music.    I would also like to know what other research you have done,  on Ancient Egyptian Music and Coptic Culture.   I  also would like to know what you know of their relationship.   Look forward to your reply.


Heru wrote again on 09-May-1999

I had seen your Web Site in the past,  and  I felt that it was a really great site.  I am very interested in the music of the Ancient Egyptians. I would like to get a complete understanding of the music, and its basic stucture.    I would like to work with you  to understand this.      I also have a web address, and its http://www.horuscorp.com.


I replied on 15-May-1999

Dear Michael,
My God, Michael!! I'm impressed. And flattered... But, more importantly, at a complete loss where to begin to answer your questions.

Talking about the Egyptian Music could be as hard as defining Life!! You understand, it's much like trying to define the English Language. How would you start talking about this?!

There's no-one I know of that can talk about Grammer in music. Still, there's definitely something very much like it underneath the audible tones. There is logic in there. It's easy to recognise its existance, but extremely hard to explain!!

Surely enough, we can always enumerate scales and rhythms, and maybe instruments, too, but none of this goes far enough, in my humble opinion. If you tell me what you already know, I might help here. Or, at least, you could start posing some more precise questions.

Also, it's easy to get fascinated by metaphysics, when talking about music of those ancient times, full of mystry and enchantment! But, I'm afraid, I tend to prefer living on the ground! I won't be able to help you if your goal is another Loch Ness creature!

Still, inspite of all the confusion in my mind, I'm really, really, happy to hear from you. I just sincerely hope I will be of help, somehow!


Heru wrote on 15-May-1999

Dear:   Hosam

    I also like to stay on the ground,  what I am really interested in is to understand the structure, and meaning of the Ancient Egyptians music. Especially there use of the U sound in most of their music.    The Coptic church still uses this in there music today.    What were they trying to due with there hymns?    Why did they sing them the way that they did?    What was the connections between phonetics and their perception of spiritual development?    Why was the language developed the way it was,  and they stayed with it for 4,000 or 5,000 years?      These are questions that I would love to work on with you and your friends in Egypt.     My understanding of the Ancient Egyptians with that every thing that did had a underlying purpose.    What was the underlying purpose of the music and the basic structure of the music.    If you can understand the root,  what was their feeling, and inspiration when they first started to develop theses concepts than you can get to the heart of what they were trying to do.     A lot of Coptic history was create because of reactions to political situations that was developing in Egypt because of their contact with other cultural.     And I personally feel that the cultures that they were coming into contact with was of a lower nature.     Therefore the Egyptians were always lowering there standards to accommodate others.  They felt that at some one they could help them raise there understanding.   But what happened was they got rid of the Ancient Egyptians.   No I am not interested in the Lock Ness monster or any monsters of any kind.   I am just interested in what the Ancient Egyptians were up to.   Especially their music.

                                                                Sincerely
                                                                Michael Ernest Thompson


Heru wrote again on 24-May-1999

Dear:   Hosam Adeeb Nashed

     I  wrote to you a week ago with some questions that I was interested in getting answered.    Yes  I am very glad to meet you also.   I am interested in understanding the Grammar and its patterns in the Ancient Egyptian music, and also the Logic in the Music.     I know that the language used the stressed the vowel sound "U".    I also know that the Coptic Church uses the "U" sound in there Liturgy services in the word Alleluia.   The Ancient Egyptians used the the vowel "U" often and based the foundation of the Spiritual system on it.   For instance  Horus was  Heru,   Osiris was Asar,   Isis was  Ast.    Thoth was Tehuti,    Hathor was Het Heru.   The "U"  vowel sound represented something very important to the Ancient Egyptians, and I would like to get a better understanding of it.    I  would like to work with you on this, and I would like to work with specific hymns that were from that period.    You should have access to these hymns.   You can tell me which one you are working with,  so I can get it from the Coptic store,  or  I could send you money to have you purchase it and mail it to me.   I look forward to working with you on this.
 
 

Sincerely
Michael Ernest Thompson


I replied on 27-May-1999

Dear Michael,
Please accept my apologies for late replies; I'm assuming the role of Mr Busy himself these days <grin>!!

Well, let's start with your first question, the one concerning our ancient language. But, first let me just re-state the obvious: We both need the find out the truth about something, so we need to be as objective as humanly possible. And to achieve this, we must never assume things; foregone conclusions are suicidal in any study of any sort.

Having cleared my conscience, let's take the plunge.

You asked:
"What was the connections between phonetics and [the Ancient Egyptians'] perception of spiritual development? Why was the language developed the way it was, and they stayed with it for 4,000 or 5,000 years?"

My reply:
What other "natural" language do you know was developed intentionally? "Esperanto" is NOT a natural language, of course. I mean, you can't search for the reason behind an action that was not done wilfully. And languages never develop by deciding to do so. As a matter of fact, languages normally cease to develop (or undergo only minimal development) during ages when good education prospers and prevails. In ancient Egypt, truly good education was often the privilege of the clergymen and the wealthy alone. That was, in fact, the reason for the many changes that the language had to go through. First, the written form was Hieroglyphics, but the language never stopped changing in the mouths of ordinary people, until somebody had to bridge the huge gap by inventing a new written form, which reflected the new grammar, new words, new spellings, among a host of other new ideas. Thus was how Hieratic was born. Later, the story repeated itself with the Demotic. The change was, again, never intentional. And, again, we can't stop to ask "why".

You asked again:
"I know that the language used the stressed the vowel sound "U". I also know that the Coptic Church uses the "U" sound in there Liturgy services in the word Alleluia. The Ancient Egyptians used the the  vowel "U" often and based the foundation of the Spiritual system on  it. The "U"  vowel sound represented something very important to the  Ancient Egyptians, and I would like to get a better understanding of it."

My reply:
The word "Alleluja" is not Coptic; it's Hebrew, meaning "Praise the Lord". The reason which might be behind your feeling vowels are so much stressed is the phenomenon of "melismata" (Greek plural of "melisma", a group of notes sung to a single syllable of the lyrics). Melismata were quite in vogue in all ancient civilizations, but especially so in ours, and might even have been exaggerated when, with the advent of Christianity to my country, some people insisted on preserving the older music by applying it to a new set of lyrics, to go with the new faith. As you might expect, the number of syllables comprised in a particular biblical verse is not necessarily the same as that of the then existing, pagan version!

Well, enough this time. Will wait for your thoughts.


Heru wrote on 31-May-1999

Dear:     Hosam

     Yes Hosam foregone conclusions are suicidal in any sort of study.   The language that I know was developed intentionally and I am learning also is Sanskrit,  the spiritual language of India.      I totally disagree,  the languages of the ancients were given to them by higher intelligence's.    So the languages were constructed based on principles that govern the universe.     The original language of the Ancient Egyptians was not called Hieroglyphics, it was called Metu Neter, which means the words of God.   As Neter, means God, and it became the Coptic Nouter, and the in Latin it became  Nature.    Neter means the forces that exist in nature.      The power behind nature,   electric energy is one of these forces.    The Ancient Egyptians objectified these forces and others thought they were Gods, and called than Pagans.     Hosam,  Alleluia may be a Hebrew word, but Hebrew as well Arabic belongs to the Afroasiatic group of languages so does all the Ancient Egyptian languages, so they are the same.   Hosam this Melismata concept is very important.     Can you record a tape singing a coptic song and stressing it.     I   will send you money for the tape and your time.     Also can you get Coptic tapes that use the Melismata style. I understand that the syllables in the Bible,  and not the same as the Ancient Egyptians.    Can we in the future,  call the Ancient Egyptian people,  Kemetic as their land was called Kemet.    Also could we stop calling them Pagan,   as I have great respect for them,    they created civilization,  created writing,  music, architecture,  math,  and the list can go on and on.    So we should have respect for them.

Sincerely
Michael Ernest Thompson


I replied on 11-Jun-1999

Dear Michael,
Please forgive my late response. Things can get hectic at work, you know!

Well, regarding your last message, I have a few points to make:

  1. I'm not sure what you mean when you state that "the languages of the ancient were given to them by higher intelligences". Notions of this kind must be based on evidences; can you mention researches on the subject? Forgive me, but I need to follow a rigorous discipline when it comes to finding the truth. Hence, I can't allow my self the luxury of taking anybody's words for granted (apart from God's). Particularly not on emotional basis: you being a friend, and our discussion being about my own forefathers.

  2.  
  3. I could never call my very own fathers "pagans"! I never used the word in my previous messages, either. Or do you think you can be more royalist than the King himself?! Still, I have to say I find it a little strange, even contradictory, to claim that they got what they had from higher intelligences (unless that meant God) and then, a moment later, claim that they established civilization, writing, music, etc. I simply mean, how and why should one respect those people if what they achieved was given to them? For being a mere vehicle? I don't know...

  4.  
  5. An aunt of mine, who lives in the States, is currently staying with us for a while. As soon as she's back to the States, I'll be sending you a nice tape of traditional, ecclesiastic chants. Meanwhile, you can listen to some fine examples at http://www.alhan.org and http://www.saintmark.com in RealAudio format.

  6.  
  7. In Coptic, the authentic way of pronouncing the word meaning "god" is "Noodi" in Bohairic (the northern part of Egypt) and "Nooda" in Sa`idic (the southern part of Egypt). I should know because I spent more than twelve years studying the language under the most cultured and knowledgeable authority in the field, Dr Emil Maher, now ordained a priest in the States.

  8.  
  9. As for the etymology of "Nature", I couldn't comment since I know how such things can be thorny; false etymology is the easiest trap in the world in which to fall! By the way, I never said that the term "Hieroglyphic" refers to our ancient "language"; rather, I said it refered to the way it was "written". The term equally applies to ancient Chinese since both "writings" used pictorial references.


Well, I suppose this is quite enough for one letter.

Till the next time. Bye, now.


Heru wrote on 12-Jun-1999

Dear:    Hassan

     When I speak of higher intelligence's,  I actually mean God.   I understand that you need to have evidence, but let me ask you, when you communicate with god is there any evidence left from your communication. The western concept of evidence and secience was developed by Sir Francis Beacon.   The reason for its development was that the people of  England had found that the Priest had been misleading them, and they desired a way to understand really with out depending of the Priest.     This lead to the creation of the method called science.      Hassan do you agree there is more than a physical realm.   Hassan science is at the point where they know there is something behind matter they just don't know what it is yet.      I look forward to getting those tapes from you.

Sincerely
Michael Ernest Thompson


I replied on 03-Jul-1999

Dear Michael,
I'm back to my normal activities at last! My American cousins are now safely back home (but not their mother), and my backlog is finally sorted out. I've got your promised tape, and I'll tell you once my aunt is back in the States (round the middle of this month, I believe).

Now, further on our "unfinished" discussion concerning the Ancient Egyptian Music:

  1. There are NO musical manuscripts from that era, and none are bound to exist, in view of the fact that priests' tombs had wall writings to the effect that they never committed the sin of profaning the sacred music by singing it outside the temples! So, their best kind of music ever achieved is probably lost for ever.

  2.  
  3. Most scholars well versed in the subject are convinced that our church music must be directly related to that old form of music, since, at the very least, it was in fact the one preceding it directly in time. Add to this many minute details embedded in this (ecclesiastic) music. Still, nobody can, or have the right to, say that it IS the ancient music. Doubts will always remain.

  4.  
  5. If you checked my article on "Painting with Scales", you might find something about a certain logic in our music that existed in our church music as well as our modern and contemporary music. I don't know if this could be what you're looking for, but it could be one place to start.


Well, I'll be waiting for your next message. Bye, now.


Heru wrote on 05-Jul-1999

Dear:   Hosan

     I am glad to see that you are back.    First I would like to get information on the Institute of Coptic Studies in Cairo.   I would like the address and telephone number and email address if they have one.    I am looking forward to the tape and listening to it and writing you with my questions.

I wonder why there are no musical manuscripts from the Ancient Egyptian era.    There plenty of papyrus from all the ears,  why hasn't any music show up?   Why was it so important not to profane the sacred music by singing it out side of the Temple.

What is the ecclesiastic music, what is its basis and structure.   What are the minute details embedded in the ecclesiastic music.     Hosan why did Clement and and  Pantaenus use the Greek script to create the Coptic language, but had to borrow 7 letters from the Demotic script to compensate for sounds that were not part of the Greek script.
 
 

Sincerely

Michael E. Thompson


Heru wrote again on 14-Jul-1999

Dear:    Hosam

     I feel that you have for gotten me.   We are brothers in the same church.   I don't know if you are aware that I am of African American and American Indian decent.    But does that matter,   I am a member of the Coptic Church, and that is all the matters.

     Now lets back to our real business, and that is the Coptic music and Language.    I am looking forward to getting that tape from you.    Also Hosan I would like you to help me get integrated into your network.   You have a very interest group of people that you study and work with.    I would like for you to bring me into your fold.     I am interested in getting the telephone numbers and email addresses of the members of your group.   I would also like to get the telephone number of  The Coptic Institute.    I look forward to hearing from you.    Take care and I look forward to seeing you when I come to Egypt.

Sincerely
Michael E. Thompson


Heru wrote again on 23-Jul-1999

Dear:   Hosam

I asked for the telephone number to the Institute For Coptic Studies.   Also we have to choose some direction for our studies of Egyptian music.    What would like to find out,   what would we like to understand about their music.    What if we find out something that changes our world view will we accept this reality, or will we reject it.     I was reading an article by John Anthony West, an Egyptologist and he was talking about the higher math encoded in the Egyptian temples.    It was some very interesting things.

Sincerely
Michael Ernest Thompson

P.S.   I am going to push you, so be prepared and be strong enough to handle it.


I replied on 24-Jul-1999

Dear Michael,

Although I tend to prefer doing just what you proposed in one of your recent messages, namely that we should decide on a direction for our discussions to follow, I really don't know. You'll be the one to decide on this; I still have to be content with groping around until I find something tangible enough for my teeth to chew on!

So, for the time being, I'll simply continue answering, as best I can, some of your questions. (Oh, by the way. I'm seriously thinking of including these discussions of ours in my Web Pages. Will this be all right with you?)

Q: Why was it important for our ancient (pharaonic) priests not to let their sacred music out of the confines of their temples?

A: I can only speculate about this. Their attitude reminds me of how our christian priests preferred to keep all their prayers safe in their hearts and souls, and never commit them to paper, for centuries. For them, the alternative was to risk their most sacred thing being profaned by the pagans (their compatriot infidels, or the Romans) during the times of persecutions. Only by the thirteenth century did they try to write down everything; that was when Coptic was  starting to die out as a spoken language, and Arabic gaining ground.

Q: What did I mean when I referred to "the minute details in our ecclesiastic music"?

A: As a matter of fact, as I was writing about the relationship between our heritage of church music and the music prevalent during the pharaonic era, I was referring to the fact that, in many, if not most, of the lengthier pieces, the start and end of a musical phrase do not necessarily coincide with those of the lyrics accompanied by that music. And also to the fact that sometimes, quite often as a matter of fact, one syllable would be sung using phrases taking (too) many staves, not just a number of tones, which was quite in vogue in those times of old. This kind of findings give a distinct impression that the music was not made for the lyrics; that the music existed before the lyrics, and that
the process by which they came to accompany each other was not exactly smooth.

Q: Why were extra seven letters added to the Greek alphabet to complete the Coptic alphabet?

A: This is merely an educated guess, based on my many years of studying the Coptic language under one of the best specialists: Dr Emil Maher, now ordained a priest in the States (unfortunately, I don't know how to reach him there, yet). Following is a list of those letters and the suggested reasons of their inclusion in the alphabet:

(N.B.: The sound values mentioned here are those authenticated by a doctoral thesis done by Dr Emil Maher with Xoford University, London. This proved the currently prevailing pronunciation of the Coptic language in our churches to be severly corrupted, starting 1858, by a Mr Erian Girgis Moftah who taught the language in the School of  clergymen, and who claimed that the Coptic language should be pronounced with the same sound values as the Greek since it was written using the same letters!!)

Last Seven Coptic Letters

- shaï: Although the Greek letter "chi" was sometimes pronounced "sh" (when followed by "e" or "i"), the sound it really represented in Greek is not exactly "sh"; it's like in the German first person pronoun "ich". Also, we used to pronounce "sh" before "a", "o" or "ou". Further, the Greek "chi" could be pronounced "k", and tended to be used for this sound in all words of pure Coptic origins.

- faï: The Greek letter "phi" alternated between the "b" and the "f" sounds. So, there seemed to be a need for a pure "f" sound.

- khaï: Same thing for the sound "kh", as the Greek letter "chi" had other alternatives.

- hori: The Greek never had the sound this one represented. As a matter of fact, the letter represented two sounds: "h" (as in the English word "hat") and "h" (with a dot under it) which is a non-voiced guttural fricative.

- djahndjah: This represented a sound that never existed in the Greek language, either. The Greek had "g" and "gh", but never "dj"

- shima: This is a rather enigmatic one. Even the sound it represented is doubtful: it could have sounded "jsh" rather than just "sh".

- di: Another enigma, since it represented simply a combination of two sounds that already existed in the alphabet: "d" + "i". Could be a psychological reason: it comes directly from a glyph that meant the first person singular "I". Besides, in writing, it seemed like its two composing letters superposed (one on top of the other); i.e. like a shorthand of the combination.

Well, I'm running out of ink, so I'll have to go now ;-)


Heru wrote on 12-Aug-1999

Dear:   Hosan

    I am sorry that I haven't gotten back with you sooner,   but  I let some things distract my attention.    I will not let that happen again.    The direction that I propose is that we try to understand what was the deeper meaning of what the Ancient Egyptians were trying to do with there music.     Did they know some thing about humans, that their music helped bring to the forefront.     Was the language, Music, Art, Architecture interrelated.    And what was the reason for relating these things.

Hosan the answer to your question about why the Ancient (Paranoiac) Priests did not let their sacred music out of the confines of their temple? I feel your answer is out of contexts.   The Pharaohs for their first 3,000 to 4,000 years of existence were never persecuted,   so that can not be the reason for there not letting their music get out of the Temples.     From my readings, research, and studies I have found that the foundation of the Ancient Egyptian culture was set in the First thru the Fourth Dynasties. After that their was very few things new,   they just continued along the same progressive pattern.    The reasons for this is that they felt that they obtained there information from "Amen",   Amen in the Ancient Egyptian language means,  one who is hidden.    The felt their culture was based on
correct universal law,  and as we say in the Liturgy of Saint Basil, as it was in the beginning, and shall to the end of time.     I don't know if you studied any other spiritual systems.    But in the Chinese Taoist system, the Yin And Yang theory.       Is that the Universal is all ways moving, and that it is never fixed.   I goes from one end  Yin (Negative) aspect to the other end  Yang (Positive), it is this movement that keeps every thing in balance according to the Chinese theory.   So Hosan the persecutions were not the reason that the music was kept in the Temples.

Hosan your question about the Minute details in our Ecclesiastic Music' This is a profound statement,  I don't know if you are ready for what I am going to say, but the truth all ways must be stated.    In the Indian spiritual systems they say the every thing in the universe is consciousness and energy. Now in the Indian system they say sound is the way how one comes into contact with universal energy.    Quantum Theory is based on,  that energy
in the Universe moves in energy packets,  called Quanta.    And this energy moves in a rhythmic motion.      The energy of the universe never moves in a linear fashion.    So if the Ancient Egyptian Music does not fit the lyrics
than the music is in a confused state.     So if one mediate on confusion, or one listens to confusion than that is the state of being one is cultivating.  We need to get deeper into this music.   We need to understand where the music and the lyrics go off key and try to place them back on key.    Hosan this is where I need those tapes of the music you are talking about.    Please get all those tapes that you are talking about, and give me a price that it costs you to purchases them, and shipping from Egypt and I will send you a money order for the amount but please do this.

As for the question about the Greek letters.     I understand that the Coptic language is corrupted, the language is a bastard language of the Ancient Egyptian language which was phonetically correct.    What makes a language Phonetically correct is that it is based on universal sounds in a accord with nature.    Hosan the Greek alphabet was totally a misuse of the alphabet.  They had no idea what they were doing.    They pushed their culture on the world by force.    Base on their selfish pride, and for the Greeks to even mention there culture in the same breath as the Egyptian culture is a disgrace.     By the way the people of  Egyptian never called them selves Egyptians this is a Greek word.     From this point on we will respect our ancestors, and call them by the name that they called them selves.    Kemetians, from Kemet, or Misra as you all currently call Egypt the land of Ra.     The name Ra was a name the people of Kemetic gave to the universal energy that  maintains every living thing.

If  you can record all the Coptic sounds on a tape for me, as you were pronouncing them at the end of this email,  I would surely love this.     As you can see we have lots of work to do.    But  I look forward to doing this work.    Not only for the rewards that I will receive but also for the rewards that future generations will receive.        Hosan keep up the good work.   We should organize all of the people in Cairo that have a knowledge of this information.
 

Sincerely
Michael E. Thompson


I replied on 17-Aug-1999

Dear Michael,
This is, by necessity, a partial answer (your message needs a doctoral thesis to answer!).

The word "Egyptian" is of Ancient Egyptian origin. It's a corrupted version of "Ha Ka Ptah", one of the many names my forfathers called the land on which they lived. It stands for "where Ptah's spirit lives". As you surely know, Ptah is one of their most emminent deities.

The term spread thanks first to the Phoenicians, who traded along the mediterranean shores, then to the Greek in whose mouths it became "Ai-gyp-tos", while in Iraq it lost it's first syllable, as it sounded like their masculine singular demonstrative pronoun ("ha" = this), and became "Qebt". The Arabs took the term to mean the inhabitants of the land, and used to talk about "Belado 'l-Qebt" (= "Land of the Qebt") when they mean the country itself.

The appelation "Misr" is not at all related to "Ra" the Sun-god. Further; it's of doubtful origin: In pure Arabic, it means the "border" between two countries, or, by extension, simply "country". The Old Testament mentions "Mitzraïm" as the forefather of all Egyptians; the word really means "two countries". Reminiscent of Upper & Lower Egypt united by Narmer?! Who knows? You could be, mixing "Misr" with the Coptic calendar month "Masra" (or "Masora") which means "Borne of Ra" or "Birth of Ra".

The confusion you're mentioning in church songs (syllables/music) is towfold, really:

  1. Phase one, someone takes an already known tune and applies it to words (not exactly lyrics; mere prose) for which it was not originally intended, hence the manifest disparities.
  2. Phase two, someone else, nineteen centuries later, wreaks havoc with the phonetic values of both vowels and consonants.
So, which one would you be willing to consider as worst?!

Look, I need to go. I could go on and on...


Heru wrote on 17-Aug-1999

Dear:   Hosan

     This a great reply to the questions I was asking.    By the way do you have any books on the things you are speaking to me about.     If so please let me know I would love to have them so I can study.
 

You stated,  " The confusion I was mentioning an an already known and applies it to words (not exactly lyrics,  mere prose), for which it was not originally intended,  hence the manifest disparities.    This is a great answer I have to study this and ask my inner God which direction he wants to go next.    A go question why did they the Ancient Egyptians Tunes?    At that time the Ancient Egyptians were considered pagans, so why did they take pagan tunes,  instead of creating their own?

Phase Two,   someone else,  nineteen centuries later,  wreaks havoc with the Phonetic Values of both Vowels and  consonants.

Hosan you are really great.    I will start calling you the Hosan The Great.    The foundation of our work will be to find the correct Phonetic Values of both the Vowels and Consonants, and their relationship to the music.    The how did they?,  the why did they?,    and finally the where did they go interrelationship to the music.      Remember everything this creation is in relationship to each other.     I will talk to your teacher, or may I say our teacher this week.    I will tell him what you said,   I will get for you the exact dates that he will be in Cairo.
 

Sincerely
Michael E. Thompson
Horus Naturals


I replied on 10-Oct-1999

Dear Michael,
During the past few weeks I couldn't stop thinking about all your questions that you sent me in your last couple of messages. I really needed some time to try and sort things out; first because of the difficulty of answering those questions, second because of the state of mind I was going through due to the sudden malfunctioning of my equipment, and third because, added to all this, I was a member of a jury panel in a whole week of festivities for the occasion of Nairooz, followed by a series of meetings to asses what went on during that week and how to make things even better the coming year.

Incidentally, I was commissioned to write an article to be distributed to all parishes here discussing the important aspects of building and training a choir, and this for the occasion of the millennium festivities that'll be held by the Coptic Church!

Let me now tell you of what I've been thinking regarding your questions.

  1. Your quest for reasons for the structure of the Ancient Egyptian Language still throws me into confusion every time I try to think about it!

  2. First: Before that Language was constructed (intentionally, as you presume), just how could people communicate? I mean, they had to have a clear means of communication in order for them to be able to settle on a set of bases for the desired Language.
    Second: As I mentioned before, even if that intentionally constructed language could be a reality, it was never taught to the normal people, the common mortals!
    Third: The language never stayed put! It endured many changes along the centuries: grammatical, syntactical, and even possibly phonetical, too. So, which phase of the language will you choose as the perfect model? And, more importantly, on what grounds?
    Fourth: All ancient peoples sought that unity with cosmic structures you mentioned. So, why have you elected my ancestors as the only, or at least the best, such endeavour? Because if other's attempts were as plausible, then how come their languages are so remarkably different?
     
  3. Regarding the corruption of the Coptic language's pronunciation in the middle of the nineteenth century, though the difference is instantly perceptible, the set of phonemes comprised in the newer (corrupt) form is NOT very different from the original: in fact only the "v", "th" and "p" sounds were added, otherwise it was a matter of pronouncing, for example, "eshlal" (=pray) as "eshlil", or "won niwan" (=everyone) as "von niven", etc.

  4.  
  5. Also, how are we to handle the fact that one and the same melody would be used in singing many, many verses, containing all sorts of vowels-and-consonants soup?!! How are you going to investigate the existence of any possible relationship between lyrics and melody (I mean as far as effect on the listeners is concerned)?

  6.  
  7. Lastly, regarding my opinion on why our priests in the old era felt it necessary to withhold their precious music from the ears of the riffraff: I had started, I remember very well, by stating it was a mere speculation. My view is based on my knowledge of my people's thinking habits along the ages. Most people at high places don't like very much the idea that their hard-earned experiences, and precious perls of wisdom, be publicly offered. Most of them honestly believe other people couldn't begin to understand. But, worst of all, they tend to panic just thinking about those others tampering with their babies!


Well, it's about 2:00 am, and I need to have some sleep (and my stomach isn't very well, and a slight fever would hold me twice a day).

So, bye now.


Heru wrote on 12-Oct-1999

Dear:   Hosan

    I am glad that you are thinking about the things that I asked you about.  I like to see the article that you wrote on building and maintaining a Choir.  I also would like the cassette tapes that we discussed, as many that you can get with the Ancient Egyptian tunes.    Please let me know about this.

Let me answer you questions in grand style.    I am a great spiritualist Hosan and you will learn that in time.

Questions
1.   My quest for the structure for the Ancient Egyptian language has to with the concept of correspondence.    The idea, concept, and reality of correspondence is based on the parallel of the two Universes,   Material  Matter),   and    Spiritual  (Ether).      We know about the material matter universe because we live in it.     We also know something about the Spiritual Universe because we know that when people die their Spirit leaves their bodies and go some where.    The concept, and law of correspondence means that every thing in the Material Universe has a correspondence in the Spiritual dimension.     Hosan the Egyptians understood this aspect better than any one else,   they built there entire culture based on this.    Also their word   Ka   means that each individual has a double.     Remember their is only one God,  but in the manifested reality there is always duality.    It has to be that way,  how else would there be balance.     The Ancient Egyptians expressed this concept in Shu & Tefnut,
the Ancient Chinese expressed this concept in  Yang & Yin,  and the modern scientist express it in  Positive &  Negative,  or   Male & Female.  In the manifested world energy takes on Polarities, and these Polarities express the whole spectrum.     The Modern Physics now understand that there is no such reality as solid matter,   that all matter is composed of vibrations,   these vibrations vibrate at different speeds,  the faster the speed the hard the Matter.     All these vibrations have sound pitches,  and if one understands the sound pitches than one can change the vibration rate of the matter.     Now the key that wholes this whole thing together is Sound.    Sound is the clue between the Spiritual & Material worlds, the vibrations are really Sound.   The Ancient Egyptians understood this, because they spent thousands of years working with it, and became Masters of it.

We have this disagreement of how the Ancient Egyptian language was constructed,   they learned the correct  values through there Spiritual practices.  Higher intelligence taught them the Structure that the language should be placed under.   You must remember that the language was constructed by the Priestly class, and not the every day people.

2.   Yes it was never taught to the common people,  they were not ready for it.

3.   Yes,  the language degenerated as time went on, but the original structure is what I am interested in.   The Grammatical, Syntactical, Phonetically structure was correct during the 1st dynasty thru the 5th dynasty after that things started to go down hill.

4.  All ancient peoples sought Unity with Cosmic Structures, and the reason that I choose the Ancient Egyptians is because they didn't the best job at this task.     There language was called   Metu Neter.     In Ancient Egypt Neter was the name for God, and  Metu Neter means the language of the Gods.     Their name for God was Amen,  does this sound formilar.   In Ancient Egyptian  Amen,  means  Hidden,  some thing Hidden, the Hidden One.     Neter in Coptic is called  Noute read it in your dictionary,   and the word Nature came from it.     So  Neter was the name of God,  and Neteu was the forces of God.    I live in the west and the whole western structure in reality sits on top of Ancient Egypt.     Hosan you know the story of  Greek language and how they got it from the Phoenicians, and the Romans got it from the Greeks.    Hosan the Greeks changed the Phonetic Values, and that is what has to be changed back.     Again is Sound is the bridge between the Spiritual and the Material.     If the Sound (Phonetic Values) are correct you open the way,   if the Sound (Phonetic Values) are not correct you separate your self.      As you stated that in the Coptic Music today,  the Music and the Words do not fit.      If you have a mature understanding of God you would know that God is an expression of  Absolute Harmony of Expression.       That the Entire is an Expression of his Harmony, and that Harmony is what we call love.     So how can we know God, or love if the Music that we are using is in a state of disharmony.    Disharmonic Music causes disharmonic human being.   By the way in Ancient Egypt the word Human means: Hu  = means  "Feeling"
Amen  =  means  "Hidden" ,  or   "Hidden One" So Hosan the word Human actually means the  "Feeling of the Hidden One".      A deeper understanding of this would tell you.   That Human being are the expressions, and feeling of God.

I know a little about the Coptic language,   I am depending on you and Dr. Maher to teach me the rest.     I  understand what you are saying that only the "v",  "th",   and   "p" sounds were added,  but only very minor changes can throw the whole system on of order.   Please, send you have a deeper knowledge of the Coptic language mediate on what these small changes didn't to the structure of the language.    When you do your meditations on this try to connect with your ancestors,   get a feel for what they were trying to do.    What they felt in there hearts, in relationship to there language.  Not just a mechanical understanding of what they were doing.

How are we going to investigate the existence of any possible relationship between Lyrics and Melody.    Thats why I want those tapes, so I can listen and we can exchange ideas and thoughts on the language.    Yes the songs probable contain all sorts of Vowels, and Consonants, and yes it probable looks like a soup, but as we look at it with  love, compassion, understanding, and ask God for guidance it will began to unfold believe me Hosan it will unfold,  there will be many who will assistance us once we get this energy moving in the right direction.

Yes I understand what Priest classes have done all over the world through out there history.   They have gained information, but lets take a closer look at the information that they have had access to.    It was all Gods  information,  I mean it  was just an understanding of Gods creations.   Know one created any thing.   Every thing falls into the realm of Gods creation, that allows all things to happen.    But because they were selfless they only give information to those who would become there workers.   I mean you could not gain excess to there information and then walk away.   It wasn't that easy,  you had to make some kind of commitment to them.  But those days are over,    the information is for all the people to help them evolve,  because the underlying truth to the creation is evolution.   All things must grow.    The universe is ever growing and changing.   So any thing that does not continue to grow and change get caught in darkness.   The light comes from movement.     Think about these
things and lets get to work.  You will become a great man in world history for this work.

Sincerely
Michael Ernest Thompson