first , your page is great.
i am moti form israel.
i always attract to east music , but here in israel its not developing... we use 12 tone scale...
so... if u have any more info about qurter-tone scale of even 1/8(if its exist)... pls send me....
we have few information here..
i buy voilin and try to study myself(i have no money for teacher.. 8)) (btw:im programmer too)
Moti wrote again on 22-Jul-1999
and , i have some question , pls.
i know that turkish music involve 1/8 tone(!) in their scales , do the egypt music involve it too?
(i play violin, if u listen carfully , u see that there is 2 ways to play biat ,
1. 3/4 , 3/4 , 1, ...
2. 5/8 . 7/8, 1 ....)
I replied on 24-Jul-1999
I never heard of 1/8 tones in our Egyptian music. But the phenomenon could have its roots from the times of the Natural Scales (I wrote about these in my Web Pages. Have you read them yet?). Back then, there were indeed two ways of playing Bayati, and they were close to what you referred to. Only, in our contemporary music, we never use them any more, at least not officially. Although I know that many older violinists insist on mentioning a "sinking sikah" (possibly your 5/8), but also a "detached sikah" which means a slightly raised sikah. But none of them can decide on any exact measurements.
Keep asking questions. Our minds live by these.
tnx u for answer my question.
i read your article about colors and tetracords that very interesting i alwayz asked myself why i happy with ajam and feel sad with sava(i very like that makam) feel x with nahawand and feel y with kurd i thought that there is no answer to that question , i tought it something in sole and with structure of makams, it seem that your theory give answer for that interesting question!
btw:did u know? "sava" in persian mean the quiet wind of the early morning (before the sun came out,between light and dark) that some of the feeling of that makam.
tnx and bye
u do great work.
Moti wrote again on 04-Aug-1999
Hi , its moti
i want to play ud , but i dont know nothing about kinds,sizes.. do u can please , give me some advices about buying?
do u know good place i can buy from?
I replied on 07-Aug-1999
I'm not really an expert on `uds, as my main instrument has always been the naï. But I can tell you a few important points.
The different models, or sizes, on the market do NOT differ at all as to the sound; what's important is the kind of wood, although I'm sorry I don't know the names. Usually, the more expensive models are made of better woods. Also, don't pay attention to the ornamentation; too much of it can muffle the sounding action of the box. And wooden windows are better than cheap, plastic ones for the same reason.
Do examine the resonating box for any fissures. Just tap all over it with the back of your middle finger as you inspect it carefully.
Usually, older instruments are very good but very expensive, too. Their wood is drier, so they sound more fully. The chords are of great importance, too. Here in Egypt, most people get a French set of chords (they are made in Lyon).
I'm afraid that't all I know. Sorry if it's not much.
Moti had written on 06-Aug-1999
hello , its moti
Tnx very much u help me alot
i have some qurstion about some makam i saw their names and i dont know the notes... so if u can help me...
farah faza .
rahat el arwah (something close to sika).
i exercise makam and tetracords on my viloin (that help me with quarter-tones) and i want to know another makams or tetrachords , so if u know the name and intervlas, send me please.
oh , alomost forgot.... i am programmer (alos fro the web) if u need any help with your site , or u need soe program just ask me (vc++,vb,java,asm)
I replied again on 08-Aug-1999
Those two maqams (or modes, really) are identical to another couple, only the tonic is different. Or, this is true at least in their present form, i.e. after everybody seems to adopt the European tempered scale.
Farahfaza is nahawand on G (sol): G A Bb C D Eb F# G
Rahat Elarwah is hozam on Bb- (si half bemol): Bb- C D Eb F# G A Bb-
As to your being a programmer, it seems that almost all good programmers are music fans. It seems a widespread phenomenon, really. And thanks for the proposal.
Moti wrote on 08-Aug-1999
tnx about your help.(your knowlage is VERY wide,did u study that professionaly?)
u know... i have so many question to ask u about music , if that alright , ill ask a few of them sometime,ok?
1. when i practice the makamat , i notes something intersting: in certain makams , u can start with different note in the scale , and start SAME makam
for example u can start play bayyati from his 6th and play bayyato again or with siga , or saba(i very like this tranmittion) and so on... is there names for things like that?
2. how should i tune my violin? (currently its D,G,D,G i saw west with E,A,D,G)
3. another 2 makams i want to know their notes: gaharka, lami(???)
i found a site about turkish music that mention 1/8,3/8 tones: http://www.hinesmusic.com/Makam.html
Tnx , have a good day(or night. whatever...)
I replied on 17-Aug-1999
First, about playing a mode on one degree then starting the same mode on another degree. This is called "transposition", or "tonal modulation".
Look, the term "modulation" simply means "change". But, when you "change" from, say, Major to Minor, we're talking about "Modal Modulation", i.e. it's a change of mode. Yet when you change the tonic of the mode (from Rast on C to Rast on G, for example), we're talking about "Tonal Modulation", because it's a change of "tonality" not of "mode".
In the Western tradition, tonal modulation is more widely used than in our eastern cultures (collectively). The reason is obvious: they have only TWO scales; we have at least TWENTY TIMES THAT!!!
AS for the violin, you're adopting the adjustment everybody seems to be used to (D G D G). I would have preferred another one: D G C F. It's one whole tone below the western adjustment. My reasons:
I'm not the only one to advocate for this adjustment, but very few people are willing to change their established ways.
- playing on two adjacent strings in ocataves becomes standard procedure;
- no mental strain on the player, as the differnce between all four strings is equal;
- all standard quarter tones remain business as usual.
Sorry for the delay; my poor computer was in pain!!! (I'm sure you can understand this!)
Moti wrote on 15-Aug-1999
i have 2 question:
1. what is it makam (or mode) "lami"?
2. some old man told me that he know makam "shata araban" but he couldnt tell me what is it exactly, do u know?
tnx and bye
I replied on 17-Aug-1999
I'm afraid you'll have to hear me say (at least this time) my eternal (and favourite) phrase: "I don't know"... ;-)
This is my ultimate answer as to what the mode "lami" is. Someone had mentioned once that it is similar to D natural minor, or at least I think someone had. I'm not sure.
But, I couldn't allow myself to say it twice in a row!! So, here goes. "Shath Araban", or "Shadd Araban", is the same as "Hegaz Shahnazi" but its tonic is G, not D. I mean it's like this: G Ab B C D Eb F# G. Or, at least that's what older books say. And, I need to remind you, we're talking "tempered scale" here.
Well, keep them coming. Bye.
Moti wrote on 23-Aug-1999
Hello and selam.
look what i have found.. if u have some info about them.... ;)
22.Shur-e pâin dasteh
30.Shahnâz-e kot ('asheq-kosh)
35.Reng-e zarb-e osul
36.Âvaz-e Bayât-e Kord
16.Âvaz-e Bayât-e Esfehân
19.Bayât-e rajeh "va forud"
25.Darâmad-e dovvom (zang-e shotor)
35.Leyli o majnum
41.Farang bâ shushtari gardân
44.Râz o niyâz
47.Bakhtiyâri bâ mo'âlef
28.Kereshmeh bâ muyeh
48.'Arâq "va forud"
10.Chahâr-mezrâb "va forud"
14.Nashirkhâni yâ tusi
15.Chahâr pareh yâ morâdkhani
19.Hesâr-e mâhur yâ abol
39.Aaqi-nameh, sufi-nameh va koshteh
40.Âvâz-e Bayât-e Tork
4.Darâmad-e sevvom (pish Zanguleh va Zanguleh)
8.Kereshmeh bâ muyeh
15.Hesâr qesmat-e dovvom
16.Hesâr qesmat-e sevvom
17.Hesâr qesmat-e chahârom
31.Mansuri qesmat-e dovvom
32.Mansuri qesmat-e sevvom
34.Matn va hashieh
38.Darâmad dovvom, Zang-e shotor
53.Leyli o majnun
Moti wrote again on 28-Aug-1999
Hello and Selam
another modes that i dont know ,
1. rahwo (or rawa)
3. doolab(dulab) byatti
btw: did u recognized the modes in the list i gave u?
I replied on 31-Aug-1999
I had neglected some of your previous questions. Forgive me, please. So here goes the answers:
- Mode Gaharkah is usually thought of as `Agam (= major) but on F, but many insist on calling it Gaharka Misri and maintain that its E is half-flat. Actually, I can't remember any famous song in this mode. But in the Coptic (=Egyptian Christian) heritage, there exists a good number of tunes in the Gaharkah Misri variety.
- In Turkey, they do use the naï, but there are other instruments of their own as well, so I can't be sure if what you heard was indeed the naï. Being a naï-player all my musical life, I can't agree with what most people think of it, namely as a sad instrument. To me, it's definitely warm and tendre, but not necessarily sad. I mean it all depends on the music itself, and on the player's style.
I replied again on 17-Sep-1999
I'm sorry for the late response, but I just had an unpleasant accident with my modem a week ago.
Now for your questions:
- I've once hear about Farahnak, but I don't really know its intervals. (I need to say "I don't know" occasionally, for fear of bad, envious eyes ;-) )
- The Dulab is not a mode; it's a musical form. Usually, it's a short piece of music that can be repeated for as many times as one needs (Dulab in Arabic means "Wheel"). Traditionally, when a song had no introduction of its own, you could use just about any Dulab of the same mode and use it as an intro.
- Concerning your intention of buying a Naï: it has to have all its segments of the same length. Some manufacturers glue cut segments to ensure they are equal in length, but it could be risky that way. Also, the bore should not be too thin. You should also use a "diapason" to make sure the tones are accurate.